Jump to content


Photo

Sequence not fit for purpose


  • Please log in to reply
51 replies to this topic

#1 DaveS

DaveS

    Member

  • Members
  • 50 posts
  • LocationBride Valley, West Dorset

Posted 26 August 2019 - 01:53 PM

I'm sorry, but that has to be my conclusion after fruitless battles with "Unhandled Exception Errors".

Sequence will do an Autopoint routine, and will do a MLPT with plate solving but actually trying to run a sequence brings up an unhandled Exception error

 

Attached File  Sequence Exception.jpg   114.95KB   0 downloads

 

I had been able to set exposures even though the sequence crashes but now this happens. I was looking at the exposure setting in case I'd made an error, but now I cannot even do that.

 

Attached File  Exposure Exception.jpg   128.38KB   0 downloads

 

Clicking on continue brings up this rump of a screen

 

Attached File  Exposure Result.jpg   57.24KB   0 downloads

 

apologies for the photos, but I don't know how to do screen grabs in Win10

 

I had been getting the sequence exception on my old Win7 laptop and thought it was just a rubbish computer, but now I'm getting the same thing on a new Win10 computer I can only conclude it's rubbish software.

 

Sorry ASA, you make absolutely brilliant mounts, the best there are, but the software? Argh Seriously disgruntled.



#2 LaCebra

LaCebra

    Member

  • Members
  • 42 posts
  • LocationAndalucía - España

Posted 26 August 2019 - 03:04 PM

(Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator)  :wacko:  :blink: 
 
1 - Copying all windows of a screen: Print Screen key
    Copy of the active window only: Alt + Print Screen keys
 
 
2 - Unhandled Exception Errors: this message must never arrive on the user's screen. This is malpractice!

So, write a one-page document about intercepting Try/Catch/Finally exceptions for .Net, then send it to P. Keller
- Try: the portion of code you want to execute
- Catch: the code to manage the exception(s) that may occur. This portion of code must make decisions in order to continue (without you!) the work as well as possible: start the task again, or move to the next image, or to the next object, or... The goal is not to stop the job (the images taken by the telescope while you are sleeping:))
- Finally: the code that must be executed after the Try, and possibly the Catch. To finish the job properly in both cases.
 
 
3 - Write a one-page document explaining that a Window form should only activate the Ok, Run, Go, Execute or any other button only after checking that all the necessary data has been entered and appears consistent. I have sometimes forgotten to designate the filter, or the number of frames to be taken, on one of the Sequence lines -_-  -_-  -_- 
This must prevent much "Unhandled Exception Errors" during the night.
 
 
4 - If P. Keller does not succeed in achieving these two easy objectives, he will not be admitted to the final examinations for the Bac+2 course of study (basic programming technician).
 
 
5 - It was my job for ten years to train professional application designers with 5 years of higher education. It is clear that this person must go to training on this subjects, or, even better, entrust the specifications to an external company that will be able to do so properly.
 
Right now it's just a shameful job!

Dura lex sed lex.

Native tongue : French

Beginner : Spanish

Machine translation system : English :rolleyes: 

 


#3 DaveS

DaveS

    Member

  • Members
  • 50 posts
  • LocationBride Valley, West Dorset

Posted 26 August 2019 - 03:16 PM

Ah, many thanks I did not see the Print Screen key on my micro keyboard (Needed to fit a covered desk outside).

 

At least someone else agrees with my assessment.

I hear distant rumors of a new "improved" (Yeah right, will believe it when I see it) software that is platform independent. If it runs under Linux maybe I can ditch windows and the software-breaking "updates".



#4 MarkS

MarkS

    Member

  • Beta Tester
  • 497 posts
  • LocationMelbourne, Australia

Posted 27 August 2019 - 07:44 AM

Dave,

 

I'm not a good enough programmer to be able to comment or shed a shining light on your problems with Sequence!

 

However, I have used it in its various upgrades for 6 years with little or no trouble. I use AF, Autopoint, MLPT, in Sequence Run every time I do any imaging - in conjunction with Autoslew, TheSkyX, MaximDL, FLIfocus.

 

Not much help I suppose, but could it be a problem with the system/settings rather than Sequence alone?

 

As an example, when I first started using the FLI Atlas focuser, the inordinate time it takes to move across its range caused an 'unhandled exception error' which was fixed by allowing greater time in Sequence for the focuser to settle. (Not obvious from any documentation, so It took me a while to figure it out)

 

Hope you get to the bottom of this.

 

Mark



#5 GeorgeCarey

GeorgeCarey

    Member

  • Beta Tester
  • 373 posts
  • LocationMidlands, UK

Posted 27 August 2019 - 08:40 AM

Screen grab Win10. Little known trick....  Hold down Windows key and shift key and hit 'S'.  Drag area. You will get the opportunity to do some editing like highlighting and then save your image.

Your welcome!


ASA DDM60Pro, homemade 8" and 10" reflectors, QSI 683 camera, Astrodon 5nm filters, Pulsar dome observatory. Website: http://www.geoastro.co.uk


#6 DaveS

DaveS

    Member

  • Members
  • 50 posts
  • LocationBride Valley, West Dorset

Posted 27 August 2019 - 12:42 PM

Thanks both

 

I tried deleting Sequence, and all it related program data files then re-installing, and re-setting my location and hardware, but the problem persists, and now I cannot even try with the exposure settings ans I get the unhandled exception error.

 

ATM the weather is wet, and as the computer kit is in a box on a platform with the telescope I will have to wait a while before going out. RDM from my office computer is throwing up access permission issues which I just cannot be bothered to work through as my blood pressure is already too high and my hair too thin!



#7 Waldemar

Waldemar

    Member

  • Beta Tester
  • 288 posts
  • LocationNetherlands

Posted 27 August 2019 - 01:10 PM

Screen grab Win10. Little known trick....  Hold down Windows key and shift key and hit 'S'.  Drag area. You will get the opportunity to do some editing like highlighting and then save your image.

Your welcome!

 

That is a very nice hint, George...Thank you !  :)​ 


Waldemar
--------------
Mount: DDM85 Standard 12V ; Telescopes: TEC140 + 140FF + Quad TCC ; Celestron RASA; TMB 92SS + 27TVPH Cameras: ZWO ASI 174MM cool; SBIG STF8300M; ATIK4120EX; TRIUS SX-36
Filters: Astronomik and Baader NB + RGB; Lunt double stack 75 mm unobstructed signature series + BF 3400; Dutch weather and light polluted skies.  

#8 Waldemar

Waldemar

    Member

  • Beta Tester
  • 288 posts
  • LocationNetherlands

Posted 27 August 2019 - 01:13 PM

Thanks both

 

I tried deleting Sequence, and all it related program data files then re-installing, and re-setting my location and hardware, but the problem persists, and now I cannot even try with the exposure settings ans I get the unhandled exception error.

 

ATM the weather is wet, and as the computer kit is in a box on a platform with the telescope I will have to wait a while before going out. RDM from my office computer is throwing up access permission issues which I just cannot be bothered to work through as my blood pressure is already too high and my hair too thin!

 

Dave...!!! don't let this get under your skin! This must be some weird wrong setting. I am sorry I cannot help you out with this  :(


Waldemar
--------------
Mount: DDM85 Standard 12V ; Telescopes: TEC140 + 140FF + Quad TCC ; Celestron RASA; TMB 92SS + 27TVPH Cameras: ZWO ASI 174MM cool; SBIG STF8300M; ATIK4120EX; TRIUS SX-36
Filters: Astronomik and Baader NB + RGB; Lunt double stack 75 mm unobstructed signature series + BF 3400; Dutch weather and light polluted skies.  

#9 DaveS

DaveS

    Member

  • Members
  • 50 posts
  • LocationBride Valley, West Dorset

Posted 27 August 2019 - 04:52 PM

OK, well I've sort-of solved the Exposure Setting problem. I looked at a working version that I have on an old laptop and realised that I'd unchecked a lot of boxes (Readout mode, Dome opening, Cover opening) that I thought didn't apply, so went back and rechecked them, and now Exposure Settings works, ie I can open the exposure setting page and set up exposure sequences. It had also been affecting the Autofocus setting (I was just looking, I don't have an autofocuser) as well, which was crazy. Which of those boxes was the key I don't know, but I'm not going to risk breaking it again.

 

That just leaves the actual Sequence Run problem, and why software should throw up unhandled exceptions at all, that just looks like bad / lazy writing.



#10 LaCebra

LaCebra

    Member

  • Members
  • 42 posts
  • LocationAndalucía - España

Posted 28 August 2019 - 08:17 AM

@George
Thank you George, your method is even better  :) 
 
 
@DaveS
"why software should throw up unhandled exceptions at all..."
I don't understand all the subtleties of English, and by far, so I answer below according to what I think understand...  :huh: 
 
Two concepts must be separated:
- the Sequence software cannot do otherwise than throw an exception in certain inconsistent situations! This is inevitable in "The Real Life".
- P. Keller neglects to manage these exceptions. This is inexcusable.
 
I will soon provide you with an explanation of what are .Net exceptions and how they are managed.
Perhaps some will be interested? (P. Keller? :D )
 
La Cebra
 
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator

Native tongue : French

Beginner : Spanish

Machine translation system : English :rolleyes: 

 


#11 DaveS

DaveS

    Member

  • Members
  • 50 posts
  • LocationBride Valley, West Dorset

Posted 28 August 2019 - 01:33 PM

Many thanks La Cebra.

 

When we get a clear enough night that Sequence via MLPT can make the plate solving exposures etc I'll try running it again.

 

As Waldemar has suggested it's probably something in the Settings that either I've missed, or is causing a conflict.

 

These things should be in the manual. People (Especially those, like me, who aren't programmers) can make mistakes that lead to puzzling results. I'm sure Dr Keller knows where the problem lies, he just neglected to document it.



#12 Waldemar

Waldemar

    Member

  • Beta Tester
  • 288 posts
  • LocationNetherlands

Posted 28 August 2019 - 05:57 PM

Many thanks La Cebra.

 

When we get a clear enough night that Sequence via MLPT can make the plate solving exposures etc I'll try running it again.

 

As Waldemar has suggested it's probably something in the Settings that either I've missed, or is causing a conflict.

 

These things should be in the manual. People (Especially those, like me, who aren't programmers) can make mistakes that lead to puzzling results. I'm sure Dr Keller knows where the problem lies, he just neglected to document it.

 

Documentation is ASA's weak spot. They are kind of used to deal with professionals I guess and apparently do not understand the need of good documentation for amateurs... I must say though, it is a lot better then in the past already   :rolleyes:  


Waldemar
--------------
Mount: DDM85 Standard 12V ; Telescopes: TEC140 + 140FF + Quad TCC ; Celestron RASA; TMB 92SS + 27TVPH Cameras: ZWO ASI 174MM cool; SBIG STF8300M; ATIK4120EX; TRIUS SX-36
Filters: Astronomik and Baader NB + RGB; Lunt double stack 75 mm unobstructed signature series + BF 3400; Dutch weather and light polluted skies.  

#13 DaveS

DaveS

    Member

  • Members
  • 50 posts
  • LocationBride Valley, West Dorset

Posted 29 August 2019 - 10:13 AM

Slightly better, yes. The Autoslew manual now tells you *how* the balance tool works, instead of leaving you to guess, but the Sequence manual is still incomplete, or rather it's in two parts. The current one tells you how to setup sequences, but to know how to set up an Autopoint you have to look in the previous manual, which has bits missing as well. Argh!

 

Reading the handbook / manuals for the DDM85, it looks like they were written for technicians maintaining the mounts in a professional observatory, with references to the employer's Health and Safety protocols.

 

 

Annoyingly, although the sky cleared at about 11 o/c (Local BST time), by that time I was still feeling rubbish, with headache and shivers, so had an early night, rather than push it.



#14 maxmirot

maxmirot

    Member

  • Beta Tester
  • 252 posts

Posted 29 August 2019 - 02:35 PM

We need new software without these issues. Support is weak from ASA. No word on new development.



#15 LaCebra

LaCebra

    Member

  • Members
  • 42 posts
  • LocationAndalucía - España

Posted 29 August 2019 - 03:49 PM

Hello,

 
I am writing the memo to help understand what the exceptions are, and how to live with them without anxiety.
I think I'll end this Sunday.
Maybe I will send a PDF copy to P. Keller  :lol: 
 

If someone could make a similar memo about Quality Insurance, it would also be beneficial. I don't know enough about it.
 

Finally, for those who have a perfect know how of mechanical design, a third memo would be welcome…
 
When there are hexagonal screws BTR under the mount with a 6mm high head, the well that should hide this head screw should not be 6mm too, but 6.8 or 7mm (?).
The height of the screw heads is standardised, but each manufacturer is obliged to stamp its own mark on the head for reasons of legal traceability (in the event of an accident). After this striking, the rise of the chased metal modifies the height of some screw heads, which goes from 6mm to 6.3mm...
 
That's the way it is in The Real Life.
 
When adjusting the azimuth mount there is therefore 0.3mm of stainless steel protruding and scraping on the aluminium of the support.
Stainless steel wins!
The mount jumps when the aluminum gives way, and the star suddenly passes to the other side of the target!
P. Keller works in mechanics, computer programming, like me I write English  :blink:  :wacko:  :unsure:       :P 

All this is a lot of amateurism for a much more expensive equipment than the average.

La Cebra

Native tongue : French

Beginner : Spanish

Machine translation system : English :rolleyes: 

 


#16 DaveS

DaveS

    Member

  • Members
  • 50 posts
  • LocationBride Valley, West Dorset

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:25 AM

Well, I tried running a Sequence last night and got the usual Unhandled Exception message. I Clicked Continue and went to look at the exposure settings, whereupon I got the Unhandled Exception error I had before when trying to set exposurs, which suggests, something in the exposure settings file is wrong. However I could easily be wrong about this, as software has a cantankerousness all its own, and the real problem may well be somewhere else, and not obvious to a non programmer.



#17 LaCebra

LaCebra

    Member

  • Members
  • 42 posts
  • LocationAndalucía - España

Posted 30 August 2019 - 10:48 AM

- Is it possible to get your old computer back to work with your old configuration?

 

- The unmanaged exception appears from the first image, or later in the series?
 
- This night I got an unmanaged exception "Exposure Aborted". Fortunately I hadn't gone to sleep yet. I started again and everything worked until 6:00. The exception window does not allow me to identify the origin of this error....
ForwardCallToInvokeMember  :blink:  : camera, mean, software, MaxIm, operating system, hub USB, NAS...

 

 

 

(in French "à" indicates the place where the action takes place.)

 

 

System.Runtime.InteropServices.COMException (0x0000FFFF): Exposure Aborted

   à System.RuntimeType.ForwardCallToInvokeMember(String memberName, BindingFlags flags, Object target, Int32[] aWrapperTypes, MessageData& msgData)

   à MaxIm.CCDCameraClass.get_ImageReady()

   à Sequencer.RunSequence.StartSequence()

   à Sequencer.frmSequenceRun.cmdRun_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)

   à System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)

   à System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnClick(EventArgs e)

   à System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)

   à System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)

   à System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)

   à System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)

   à System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)

   à System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)

   à System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)

   à System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


Native tongue : French

Beginner : Spanish

Machine translation system : English :rolleyes: 

 


#18 DaveS

DaveS

    Member

  • Members
  • 50 posts
  • LocationBride Valley, West Dorset

Posted 30 August 2019 - 12:53 PM

My old laptop has been throwing up USB errors with my Trius 694 camera that had me puzzled for a long time, at first I thought it was something to do with the camera, so I've stopped using it for this application.

 

In Sequence the telescope will slew to a point that may be an autofocus star, or the first MLPT exposure, I do not know which, because it is at this point that I get the first Unhandled Exception error, with no exposure made. After closing the program and checking with Cartes du Ciel the telescope is pointing well off from the target.

 

I have sent an email to ASA support, now waiting (Yes, haha) for a reply.



#19 LaCebra

LaCebra

    Member

  • Members
  • 42 posts
  • LocationAndalucía - España

Posted 30 August 2019 - 02:57 PM

What I'm saying here is not necessarily the same problem as you... But near...
 
 
AutoSlew uses a PID (proportional, integral, derivative controller) to quickly move the mount, then slow down when approaching its target, without exceeding it.
This PID must be adjusted (with difficulty) according to the load of the mount, and the position of its barycenter.

For me it's almost impossible!
Almost in the direction of the North Star, the mount starts to rumble, shake, jump. I can hear it all the way into the house.
Bearings, encoders?

I have to permanently slow down the mount to 25% of its "commercial" speed to limit the problem.

This is at the origin of loosening the primary mirror by the violence of vibrations.
 
AstroSystem was informed in writing in October 2018. Answer "I'm on a trip abroad".
Maybe for Christmas 2019?  Or 2020???

These vibrations, blockages, cause the PID to "stall" (like 737-Max :( ) about once a night. He can't move the mount to his target. This also results in a stop of tracking and the stars become long lines. A image losted.
 
But when it comes to moving to a star, the mount stops along the way.
When it comes to the realization of MLPT, often from the first view, the plot of the curve is impossible, and so is MLPT. All the images in the series are then lost.
 
It is necessary to monitor at the top of AutoSlew if the sidereal tracking indicator remains active, otherwise it becomes a terrestrial tracking.
 
But I don't have any unmanaged exceptions. Sequence continues as if nothing happened.
I don't know if it's the same problem as you?

If some of the terms I use are mistranslated, don't hesitate to ask me to clarify their meaning.
La Cebra
(Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator)

Native tongue : French

Beginner : Spanish

Machine translation system : English :rolleyes: 

 


#20 DaveS

DaveS

    Member

  • Members
  • 50 posts
  • LocationBride Valley, West Dorset

Posted 30 August 2019 - 05:54 PM

I've had none of the problems you report (Yes,I do understand), The mount (DDM60 pro) slews with utter silence, and points well, perhaps because it has a more manageable load in the form of a 130mm f/7 triplet apo with a 80mm astrographic refractor on top. So far MLPTs made for a Maxim DL Autosave sequence work well, and my images show small sharp, round stars. When tracking with a MLPT I usually only see the hundredths of arc sec figures changing.

 

I spent quite a long time with the balance tool getting it as exact as I could, though only in RA and Dec, balance around the optic axis is still a little out.

 

I've never seen Autoslew switch to Terrestrial Tracking, it's either been Parked and not tracking at all or else following Sidereal Tracking.

 

At some time soon I intend to run another iteration of the polar axis alignment, as currently one axis (The RA I think) is showing 3 arc min of error which I would like to get out, I'm seeing quite large MLPT errors before correction. This will need a new Autopoint model, which Sequence is still capable of doing.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users