GeorgeCarey Posted July 11, 2014 Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 (edited) The first Wiki example looks much nicer than the second. The adverts all over the second one are very off-putting. Edited July 11, 2014 by GeorgeCarey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukepower Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Hi George, thanks for your feedback. Yes, right, I was just not sure how you guys feel with the Wiki Syntax used all over, it's easy once you got it... But at the beginning it's again something to learn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukepower Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 ALright, I guess I'll go for a self-hosted solution with either DokuWiki or WackoWiki (latter has a WYSIWYG editor), so that we keep our data (or could move to an ASA server in the future). Tomorrow I'll play around a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukepower Posted July 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2014 Alright, here the DokuWiki version: http://dokuwiki.lukepower.com/ This would be easily portable to other servers as it stores the data in textfiles rather than a database. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Hello, just for your information. I'm currently preparing a presentation to ASA about your wishes and concerns. I sure I can give you a kind of road map how and what will be done in next few month. This is the rason why I asked the beta testers to give an overview about actual bugs in Autoslwe and Sequenz and to create a wish list to see what is needed. I'll give you an update after talking with ASA. Best regards, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john32712 Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Hey guys, Lukas, no acreage in Namibia or New Mexico, but we are a dark sky site with very steady skies, some of the best in the states. So when you are ready for a break from those alps, come for a visit!. Thanks for the initiative you are taking to make things better for all of us! Bernard made a comment above, "ASA has no interest in improving the documentation". Are we absolutely sure of this? (I know the actions and responses of ASA have demonstrated this). Since we have all invested a substantial sum of money in our mounts, I would like to get some kind of response from ASA stating they are not planning to update their documentation or software any time soon. Here is why... What if unbeknownst to all of us, ASA is planning a software release which would antiquate our documentation and efforts? I know it is a long shot, but personally, I want ASA to officially say they will not be placing any effort in providing updated documentation to the purchasers of their mounts. Once we know that piece of information, surely we have no choice and should definitely continue on the current path. That single response will be so significant and a real litmus test, since future purchasers of ASA mounts will have one hell of a situation on their hands and it sends a clear signal... Do all of you agree? If ASA literally plans to abandon mount support, and by support I do not mean response to a personal issue you are having. I would like to know that. It just seems crazy to me for us to write/update their manual. Can you imagine people who own BMWs having to write the owner's manual for BMW? Especially considering how important the manual is to anyone buying a mount. You can get in a car and start driving right away, you are not going to do that with this mount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukepower Posted July 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 John, will definitively come back to your invitation one day I remember to have heard that they (ASA) were working on a new version of the electronics, using ethernet instead of usb, maybe they are putting their resources on this? Dunno, but hey, we left several thousand bucks to them, I would expect a better development cycle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john32712 Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Michael, In your presentation, could you please provide the following feedback to the owners of ASA. 1. I do believe that most ASA mount owners purchased your mount because we love the technology and believe this is the right direction for the future. 2. The mount is severely compromised without equally good and up to date supporting software. How long until the next major update to Autoslew? 3. The learning curve on an ASA mount is high, that is not a problem for many (certainly we love a challenge), but the most critical piece for success is excellent documentation and procedure explanation. The company's communication is horrible on so many levels. The manuals which are extremely important, are outdated and no longer relevant, they are not concise. clear, organized effectively, or accurate. Why has ASA not updated their manuals, why are we dealing with manuals from years ago? 3. To illustrate how bad things have become, read the comments from others above. They are trying to write a ASA's manual for them. This is ridiculous, ASA is still in business, correct? 4. The company has not communicated anything about software direction, future plans, feedback requests, etc...Unlike other mounts, where all you need is their driver, we are absolutely reliant on Autoslew and to achieve long focal length usability, Sequence. 5. One integrated software package to control your mount would be ideal. Is this a possibility? 6. You keep mentioning software bugs, yes there are a few, but that is not the big problem here. The software (Autoslew/Sequence) need major updating. You have been beta testing the current version for how long now? 7. The frequency of software updates has come to a grinding halt. Is ASA abandoning their mounts? I respectfully request answers to the questions I have posed above. In fairness to ASA, I certainly understand software development and documentation management are costly. As purchasers of your mount we rely on this type of support from ASA. Just let us know something.... The current consensus from many mount owners is that ASA does not care (read Bernard's post above). They can fix this so easily and we would then have the best mount on the planet! Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john32712 Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Lukas, That invitation will remain open... That would be a great update (Ethernet)! Looks like we have caught Michael's attention from ASA. Lets see where it gets us? Do you know how long this beta testing for the current version of Autoslew has been going on? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john32712 Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Michael, When should we expect this update? Thank you, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukepower Posted July 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 John, hmm, beta testing started last fall (correct me if I'm wrong), and the updates at that time were very quick - in the order of a new version with some corrections twice a week. But soon it stopped... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john32712 Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Ok Thanks, So now we need to know, why has everything come to a complete standstill? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakbrooks Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 The thing that concerns me is the following set of dependencies: 1. ASA hardware is superb, but is not usable without software. 2. The current software (Autoslew/Sequence/etc) seems to be dependant upon a single individual for its development and maintenance, and so far as I'm aware that individual is semi-independant of ASA itself. 3. The current software is not open source, so it is not possible for users or third parties to continue development if (for whatever reason) it ceases to be supported by either the developer or ASA themselves. 4. The hardware/software interface is proprietary and not documented so it is not practical for a 3rd party or users to develop alternative control software. I presume that ASA is primarily in the business of selling hardware, not software. I would therefore have thought that it is in their best interests to publish the driver interfaces so that third party products can control the hardware - this would both increase the potential market for ASA products and also provide comfort that 3rd party control software might become available if Autoslew/sequence ceased to be supported. ASA could consider making the Autoslew/Sequence software open source, but I'm not sure if the IPR is owned by ASA or the develoiper and it would probably open a can of worms from a support perspective if users started altering the source in an amateurish fashion. However the source could be made available for purchase by serious developers and/or escrow arrangements could be put in place so that it becomes open source if it ceases to be maintained by ASA. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukepower Posted July 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 2. The current software (Autoslew/Sequence/etc) seems to be dependant upon a single individual for its development and maintenance, and so far as I'm aware that individual is semi-independant of ASA itself. 4. The hardware/software interface is proprietary and not documented so it is not practical for a 3rd party or users to develop alternative control software. As far as I know, Autoslew is coded by Philipp Keller since a decade or more. In our local club's observatory (80cm Cassegrain, btw) we have an older version of Autoslew controlling the fork mount (made by Philipp Keller, btw). In the IAS' observatory in Namibia, there is a 72cm Newton telescope controlled with Autoslew, too. So my guess is that ASA asked Philipp Keller if they could use his knowledge (regarding how to build a mount) and software, at least in the first years. Nowadays I guess that they work more closely, as Mr. Keller's correctors are sold through ASA and not directly by him. Nigel, it should be quite possible to reverse-engineer the hardware interface, but it will probabily be not as easy as a LX200-compatible mount: All the corrections made by the pointing files (read: the values you see in Autoslew under "Show corrections") are somehow loaded onto the mount and then it's working moreless autonomously. I saw this behaviour earlier when my USB connection was faulty and the mount continued to track perfectly for about 30 minutes... Would be "cool" to know this interface, but then we would need somebody good at coding and somebody else good in mathematics to make the appropriate calculations... And my personal ++ would be that it would also working under Linux, for example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakbrooks Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Yes, I'm not suggesting anyone try to reinvent Autoslew/Sequence now; it would just be a comfort to know that this would be possible if, for any reason, Dr Keller was no longer maintaining the software. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamaSpaceShip Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Hello, John, you may think that re-doing the mount documentation is crazy. It is probably. But we are too dependant from ASA and this is a way to recover a part of our freedom. I cannot wait for things to happen while I can do them by myself. In France, we have a proverb: "God helps those who help themselves", and, as I don't care of God(s), you see which possibilities remains to me. Lukas, I am an IT professional in real-time systems since 35 years, so I have no trouble to work on the Autoslew code in the case where it would be made open source by ASA, or at least, the communication protocol with the mount (and I would love to make a Linux version as this is the operating system I use every day). And Nigel, I agree with you that even an NDA would be profitable to provide some safety in case of a failure of the developer of ASA mounts software. I hope that ASA will understand that opening the knowledge will be profitable to them, and I expect that Michael's presentation will present them this opportunity. Best regards. Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john32712 Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Bernard, By crazy I mean we have paid for a technical piece of equipment which requires well written and updated documentation. To me it is like having to pay for it twice by writing it for them (ASA)... My family is from Slovakia and they say the same proverb, the only difference is we really care (God)! Best wishes Bernard, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakbrooks Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 This has become a bit of a feeding frenzy. Hopefully ASA have now got the message that we are all very supportive of their fantastic hardware and we recognise that Dr Keller has singlehandedly produced some really innovative software to match that hardware. Hopefully ASA will soon respond to give us the comfort we need that the software will continue to evolve, that it will be professionally documented and supported, and that measures will be put in place to protect our investment. I'm going to hold off from further posts to give ASA a chance to respond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john32712 Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Nice post Nigel! Agreed! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Nigel, I absolutely agree! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john32712 Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 BTW, what do you think is a reasonable time to respond? A very smart man once said time is relative... I would say 1-2 days is a reasonable amount of time to respond to a customer in a forum situation. Considering that Mark last posted on Saturday morning, we will quickly exceed that expectation. Comments? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamaSpaceShip Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Hi John, The first and only comment from ASA occurred about 3 weeks after the start of this thread. So we cannot expect reasonably anything before the end of this month. Sorry to break a dream. Regards. Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john32712 Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Hey Bernard hope you're doing well, Three weeks to get a response? Do you really think it is that bad? When I read some of the commentary(on this forum) about how great things are, I wonder what standard they are comparing to? With any of my other astronomical products, I typically get a response the same day, two at the most. Take care, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamaSpaceShip Posted July 15, 2014 Report Share Posted July 15, 2014 Hi John, Three weeks to get a response? Do you really think it is that bad? It's unfortunately just a fact. They already did it, and nothing is indicating that they would behave differently. Probably, they don't have any answer yet, and it may take them some time in this holiday period to get anything to tell us. Regards. Bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Hello, please read this announcement regarding planned upates for 2014. http://forum.astrosysteme.com/index.php?/topic/331-planned-update-autoslew-sequenz-documentation-2014/ Best regards, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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