Future Direction of This User's Group

[john32712]

Gentlemen,

 

Every so often I check this user's group to see if there are any new ASA product developments. We were promised an updated manual last year, a major software announcement last spring, and revolutionary news to come... Unfortunately none of these came to fruition. Even worse, no updates were provided or any further explanations. This user's group is the only line of communication we have ASA.

 

Now I don't mind seeing other people's pictures, but in reality, I come to this web site to find out the latest on my ASA mount and software. I think its great if your pictures get published in a magazine, but shouldn't that type of info go on your personal webpage? The personal pictures you have created do very little for people trying to master an ASA mount and it's associated software.

 

Now here is the stark reality, If I look at the most recent posts, they have nothing to do with learning more about ASA mounts and software. It really looks like personal pontification to me.... My intention is not to insult anyone, but I would like to read posts about problems you have had and what you did to resolve them. Maybe you wrote a more concise description on motor tuning that you would like to share. Or maybe you have had success at getting 30 minute subframes and how you got to this point and challenges you experienced.

 

I still believe ASA products are the best, but I would really like to see us advancing the documentation, software, etc. Do you think I am way off here?

 

You can commence hurling stones at me.

 

 

[nakbrooks]

++ votes for that post.

[Daniel Schmid]

I think that we should not mix things up:

the fact that some users like to post images frequently (in the appropriate sections, by the way) is completely ok in my opinion. However, it is probably not the primary intention why this forum was created.

 

I fully agree that there is virtually no news about what is going on behind the doors of ASA regarding the promised update/manual even in the beta section. It seems that "a few weeks" means "a few months" for ASA in this forum. Same for orders, at least for my last order from january 2015 (expected delivery time 4-6 weeks) that still did not arrive. The only news that I have seen recently on the website was the note about "ASA 2.0", whatever that means.

 

Just a few words ,at least every month from the ASA team on topics that were discussed by users and maybe about the current progress of the manual/software update(s) would be good for this forum!

[nakbrooks]

Fully agree. The posts in the images section are inspirational and I absolutely would not want to discourage them. But we need more information from ASA on current developments and more support for those of us who are struggling to use very expensive kit with totally inadequate documentation.

[john32712]

Well, I am glad that I am not the only one thinking this! This user's group could be so much better and we could be making some real progress collectively.

 

I did not mean to insult anyone, but I just don't think this is the appropriate place for your personal photographs and accomplishments. If you eliminated the few posts regarding personal pictures the site would be dead. I just don't want that to happen. It's a big investment we have all made...

 

Thanks guys for the commentary back!!!!

[MarkS]

Hi John,

 

There are two issues here.

 

I agree with your comments regarding the paucity of postings regarding equipment usage and development. The ASA equipment is 'as good as it gets', but it's different, and the learning curves are pretty steep. I remember that, when I was on the steep part of the curve(maybe I still am ), there was a very active - at least I thought so - Yahoo group, which did not transfer very well to this forum. I gained a lot of insight and assistance from it. I don't know why the interaction became quieter. Anything to stir it up would be good!

 

To the second point, as one of the repeat offenders in the posting of images, I have posted in the spirit of  any image forum board.  That is, that there is a common interest group who like to look at what other people are achieving, share their own images for others to see, supply constructive comment, and learn from others. For many years I was an active subscriber to a very large Landscape forum, and that experience developed my photographic skills enormously - both in shooting and processing.

 

Perhaps the ASA common interest group is not extensive enough to sustain such activity - and the nature of Astrophotography is very different from Landscape - but when one has reached a reasonable level of competence with the equipment, the learning journey doesn't stop. It is natural enough to want to share one's results with like-minded people and learn from doing so. I have learned a lot from others that I never would have, had they not posted their images here.

 

The ASA forum boards are wide-ranging and inclusive. Nobody has to look at them all, but I would personally like to see much more activity on the image boards, as well as the technical ones. Whether they should be totally split apart is an issue for ASA, I suppose.

 

Regards,

Mark

[GeorgeCarey]

John, no stones coming from my direction. I would also like to see more technical discussion. However, I think this needs to have an input from ASA. There are still many facets of the DDM mounts and Autoslew that puzzle me, even though I have had my DDM60 for over 5 years. Occasionally I have asked questions on the forum and have had a few member responses, but really I need definitive answers from ASA.

 

I enjoy the images posted by members - keep them coming!

 

George

[john32712]

Mark & George,

 

Thank you for the response and posting your point of view. The common thread between both of your postings is we have a great mount, the learning curve is very steep, there are many questions which still exist, and there is much more yet to learn. This forum should be a point of continuing education and development for ASA products and its users. 

 

Yes, I like to see my colleagues advancement and that may be in the form of a picture posting. But you have to admit, when things are not working the way they should or you are a newbie struggling, pictures do very little for you. If I am having great success, I can easily say, Mark and George take a peak at my personal webpage and tell me what you guys think! It's just a click away.... Again, not trying to discourage anyone from posting anything they want. Just not sure how having your pictures published in a magazine helps fellow ASA mount users?

 

We really need ASA to have mutual dialogue with its owners/members. We are a very select and limited group and this "dead silence" from ASA is counter productive financially and otherwise. I am starting to wonder if the business is financially sound? It makes no sense whatsoever for a company to never discuss the future or talk about current areas of improvement.

 

Finally, I want to know about problems and successes that Nat, George, Mark, the guy in Wolfhausen, etc. have had! I would like to see a collective of reference material that will let me know my mount is performing well. I do a lot of guessing and supposition with my mount. It now performs well, but can I learn to make it perform better? No one I know, owns this mount and I have beat my brains out getting through some issues. I bet if we could all spend a couple of days together and see how we have set our mounts up and the set of procedures we all do....we would learn so much!!!

 

I am ranting, but I wish there was a way we could get ASA to do something about this situation.....

Edited June 7, 2015 by john32712

[MarkS]

Hi again John,

 

I certainly agree with you that a more active sharing of experience on technical issues would be great. And I think that is up to us, not ASA.

 

What we need from ASA is faster response to queries put to them. And there are certainly frustrations caused by the delays on promised software upgrades etc. However, I personally have never been dissatisfied with ASA's response when I have appealed directly for help - and I needed a lot when there was a serious problem with my DDM60 - even though Australia and Austria are a long way apart!

 

My experience of the forum is that I usually get some help from other members when I ask - and I always try to help when I feel I can.

 

I also know from sometimes bitter experience that a large part of the learning curve is practice: my set-up, being mobile, is relatively simple, but I do get lots of practice in setting up, balancing, tuning etc.

 

Perhaps we all need to be more forthcoming in stating our specific problems, and in trying to answer those of others. At least this should help identify quickly when ASA must be called for help.

 

Regards,

Mark

[TimC]

I really hope that all of you guys, the experienced ASA users, don't abandon this forum out of frustration.....then were would we all be?? I think we need each other to stay together on this forum and to keep checking in regularly to help each other. I really appreciate the assistance I have received from this forum.

 

I also would appreciate it if ASA had more time devoted to this forum.

 

I am sure ASA realises that their credibilty / reputation is their best asset after the good products. A product, no matter how good it is,  has to have good ongoing support -  and that includes delivering on software updates that are promised, but most importantly,  providing excellent documentation and software manuals. 

 

I have had good support directly from ASA, when I have needed it.

 

I am sure ASA really means well and has the customer at the center of their plans going forward.

 

 

Thanks,

Tim

[RamaSpaceShip]

One year ago, there was a lot of traffic on this forum about getting an update for the mount software. After a month or two, we surprisingly got a few messages from ASA, telling that all should be fixed very soon.

 

We are still waiting.

 

I don't understand ASA behaviour and my guess is that there are some issues in their relationships with P. Keller, as this is the only thing I see that can explain such a result.

 

Anyway, several people have posted their issues on this forum and, as far as I can see, they quite quickly got help from one or the other.  And after a few iterations, it seems to me that a solution was found. So this forum does its job. One can complain that the are only a few ASA DDM users that contribute to help on this forum, and rarely, some ASA guy, but it may be because all the other DDM users either don't use the forum or do not think they can be of any help.

The problem I see is that the ASA contribution is way too weak, not telling about the documentation of ASA products.

 

A part of this forum is dedicated to images. If you don't like what is posted there, you can just ignore the posts in that area. Fair enough.

Some people can really be proud of the images they made, and even more if they got an award from a magazine. They are just humans.

And I am pretty sure that if you ask them some help on image processing, they would provide helpful answers.

 

Really, the ASA silence is the issue.

Hey, ASA team, do you hear us???

[nakbrooks]

With the total lack of communication concerning the future direction of the software, the thing that concerns me is that the ASA mounts are totally dependant upon the Autoslew family. I do not know who owns that software (ASA or Dr. Keller) but if for any reason it stopped being maintained our very expensive hardware might become useless. It would be comforting to know that ASA has arrangements in place to enable the software to be maintained without dependence on a single individual. Either there should be escrow arrangements, or maybe it could become open source?

[john32712]

Really great commentary guys and some good points!

 

We certainly have some obstacles to get through and it always helps when there is common ground. I think we are all in agreement, ASA needs to speak up and provide some statements regarding their products and future software development! If there were some strained inner company relationships and that was the reason for this poor communication and support, I would easily understand, since every company has its issues.

 

I think it is the silence that concerns me the most. The site is our direct line to ASA and I never see any communications from them.

 

To RamaSpaceShip, let me reword my prior statement for clarity's sake... If I knew from this point forward the only post's on this forum would be people posting pictures, I would most probably delete it. If I wanted to see that, I would go here http://www.deepskycolors.com/ or here http://www.glitteringlights.com/Images/Nebulae/ and here too http://www.robgendlerastropics.com/ .  As I stated earlier, I would never discourage anyone from posting whatever, especially if the work was accomplished with ASA products. I think my frustration has come through with the lack of posts directly relating to improving the ASA products we own. I truly believe if posts were flying about documentation improvement, the future of Autoslew and Sequence, some how-to videos, etc., you would not have heard a peep out of me. In fact, I might post some pictures too. But when that is all you see, well, its discouraging and concerning at the same time.

 

If you all remember, last year we were promised new documentation and then were told to get ready for a big Autoslew announcement (spring 2015). I certainly do not want to piss off the ASA guys, but gimme a break! Say something when you don't deliver....  If I told everyone I had re-written all the documentation, it was much more concise, and I was sending all of you a DVD copy next week. Then a year later no DVD, would you ever believe another word from me???

[w0mbat]

Hi all,

I have been resisting starting a similar thread to this for some time.

I agree that it is the silence from ASA that is really annoying. People are generally tolerant of problems as long as they are kept informed.

Come on ASA! Pay your existing customer base the respect it deserves by bringing us up to date and keeping us there!

Regards

Ian

[rharter]

Hi all,

 

the frustration about the not existing customer relationship in this forum from ASA is reproducible.

Restrictively to this forum, the documentation and the update politics, because in a service case my experiences (2 times) were quite ok.

I must admit that I can not understand this behaviour against customers, who are dependent on updates. Just for example: Since I use Sequence beta, suggested by Mr. Keller, most of my problems I had before are gone ( besides of my wobbling telescope ). But since months they are still offering Sequence 09... although several announcements of updates...???

So here my suggestion for really satisfied customers of a high price tool: Please ASA do change your update and information politics!

It´s a pity!

 

kind regards

Ralph

Edited June 8, 2015 by rharter

[RamaSpaceShip]

Hi John,

 

I really understand your frustration, and the additional impact of the posted images. My comment was only to indicate that you threw stones at the wrong target: guys posting images. Whatever you think about their posts (and you are really completely free to have any opinion), they should not be stoned as they have nothing to do with the very bad ASA behaviour.

 

 

There was no update of autoslew since two years now, if I remind correctly. The beta testers indicate since months that a great progress has been made on the software. So what is the obstacle for the beta to become a release?

 

DDM users will all highly appreciate the fixed bugs and the new features that are available already in the beta. Of course, it is possible to ask to become a beta tester, but this would be counter productive: I want an official new release including all the benefits of the current beta.

 

 

Best regards.

 

Bernard

[john32712]

Bernard,

 

Thank you for the response back! If you go back to my very first post on this thread, I don't believe my comments indicate throwing stones at anyone. My topic is "Future direction of this user's group".  My point is/was, if every time I look at this site and the only topic which exists, is what awards and published pictures a certain person has achieved, this site then becomes useless to me and based on additional comments from others, for them too! There are hundreds of "personal" astrophotography sites which are phenomenal and provide some real motivation. Additionally,  I do understand your point, of laying the blame where it belongs!

 

Here's a great analogy. Have you ever seen the film "The Titanic"? There is a scene where the ship is sinking and three cello players keep playing while the ship is sinking. I'm not going to criticize the cello players, but I am not going to stick around and listen to music either... Get it?

 

Going back to my original point, what should this site have as it's "Main" purpose? I understand there can be many other purposes too, but again if it is not helping "all" of us move forward, lets not all sit around and play the cello! Fix the leak or jump in the raft....

 

Here is my contribution to fixing the leak: I suggest we put together a list of poignant questions to ASA from anyone who would be willing to ask. We could request that this list be then be published on this site for all of us to see. I can provide my personal email and I have no problems doing the footwork. I am certain we can come up with some really good questions which need to be answered. Does this make sense?

 

If not, I have about 25 pictures I could post to this site....lol

[lukepower]

This all looks like a dejá-vue of last year's thread. I on my side stopped hoping for any improvement as I feel the software part of ASA is made sort of "if it works its fine". The beta releases are also being updated very slowly. There are stupid bugs around since years. But hey, I put a lot of bucks in my system and once it works I won't do anything to it.

In another life, I would for sure buy another mount...

[Adamo]

This all looks like a dejá-vue of last year's thread. I on my side stopped hoping for any improvement as I feel the software part of ASA is made sort of "if it works its fine". The beta releases are also being updated very slowly. There are stupid bugs around since years. But hey, I put a lot of bucks in my system and once it works I won't do anything to it.

In another life, I would for sure buy another mount...

Hi All

 

that's right!

I haven't help from ASA  support too.

ASA is very strange buissness.

Remains for us the  toy is not worth much but very expensive

 

Best regards Adam

Edited June 9, 2015 by Adamo

[john32712]

Hi Lukas,

 

You are correct, this is a repeat performance of last years thread. But like your last comment indicates, I came pretty close to selling my DDM85XL and then I began getting some good results with the use of MLPT.

 

I do believe this is a good mount and it would not take much to turn this all around. I know one guy in the States that was a strong supporter of the DDM mounts. He got pissed off at ASA and has sold it. His complaint? Lack of company support on it's products...

 

I don't give up easily and I would love to help turn this around. It sounds like you have had enough?

 

Best wishes,

 

John

[john32712]

Ok guys, let me try this and see how much support I can gather from my fellow DDM mount users. If I get no response back, I'll assume you are good with the way things are. However, if you are like me, I would like to respectfully and professionally challenge ASA to do a better job. I feel like they are hurting themselves globally and this can be fixed easily! Will you help me? OK here goes, I am putting a list of direct questions to be submitted to ASA with names attached to each question. Here are my questions, will you help me and provide your questions? Constructive criticism welcomed!!!!

 

1. I have now owned my ASA mount for three years, The software you provide to support it (Autoslew & Sequence) is absolutely critical for it use. ASA has not been proactive with communication about its software, revision updates, and future advancement.  Years have gone by without any company statements or indication of the future. There have been promises, but none have been kept. This is very important and you surely understand that the lack of communication and updates is counter-productive to any company.

 

Do you plan to change or improve on this? If so, please explain how and when? If you do, would you agree to provide at minimum, monthly statements on the "user's group", about progress (software and hardware) and direction at ASA?

 

2. The documentation, user's manual, and reference material is not acceptable. two years ago this was brought to your attention and last year a commitment was made. That commitment was not kept! it is imperative, especially for newer users and for seasoned users as well. We need good reference material and excellent documentation. Of all astronomical mounts, the ASA line can be very technically challenging. We should have the best documentation of all commercially available mounts.

 

When the committed date for documentation was not met, why were not informed of a new date, or at least an explanation of what the hold-up was? Can the user's group help with this?

 

 

Ok, guys, now is the time to speak ....

 

Thank you,

 

John

[RamaSpaceShip]

Hi John,

 

I fully support your questions.

 

I would add a third one:

3. Does ASA consider opening the source of the software and the documentation as an option?

 

Bernard

Edited June 10, 2015 by RamaSpaceShip

[lukepower]

John,

 

I fully agree. The thing that pisses me off is that it's not a new situation. If asa comes now with promises I simply would not believe them.

 

I had contact over the years with quite a few guys at Asa and it has always been a delight. My guess is that even they don't know what Philipp Is doing with the software...

 

Best regards

[GeorgeCarey]

We are now getting into the realms of pure speculation.

[john32712]

Luke, can you phrase that as a question and would you be willing to put your name to it? If that is the case, just knowing that info makes me more aware and better able to make a future decision. I am looking for support...

 

Thanks!

 

John

Edited June 10, 2015 by john32712